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Monday, November 16, 2009

"Under God"

I just took a poll on weather to keep "under God" in the pledge of allegiance. Three atheists were attacking my every word, just like a pack of evil wolves. To me, they seemed very angry and defensive. It was very obvious by their behavior, who had God in their life and who didn't.
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26 comments:

  1. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 6:44 AM

    that's nice.....so under god should or should not remain in the pledge? if so, why? if not, why?

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  2. PeggyNovember 17, 2009 at 7:13 AM

    Sorry...I guess I didn't make my position clear, I thought it was obvious how I felt by my comment.
    I see no reason why "under God" should be taken out of the pledge just to satisfy the "politically correct." Just because it wasn't added until 1954 doesn't mean it wasn't added. It should stay. The majority of people in this country are Christian, and no one is forcing anyone to say it.

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  3. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 7:23 AM

    the pledge is typically recited in public schools. why should a religous endorsement be part of a teacher lead chant in a publically funded school?

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  4. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 8:11 AM

    I have been on such polls myself. often, one is barraged by fundamentalist christians making claims that the us was founded on god and that those who dare say it wasn't are going to hell, etc.

    tends to foster irritation....

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  5. MoonliteSonataNovember 17, 2009 at 9:52 AM

    I'm not an athiest, yet I couldn't care less if it was taken out or not. It's not about god, its about country. Most athiests I know couldn't care less, either, as long as they don't have to profess something they don't believe. The pledge is about allegiance to country, not god, so who should care if a few random people don't utter that line? Athiests wanted it removed BECAUSE people cared if they didn't say it, Peg. It would never have been an issue otherwise. Kids were sent home from school because they refused to say the line. Don't even pretend that people don't care- its been proven they do... much too much.
    Why is is such a deal, for Anyone? Christians tend to beleive that because its good for them, all should conform. Its a silly notion, or we'd all be carbon copies of eachother, which we are not.

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  6. PeggyNovember 17, 2009 at 10:55 AM

    I never once said that anyone should be forced to recite the pledge of allegiance...with or without "under God." I believe that is wrong. My point is...don't take it away from the majority, just because the minority don't like it. This subject has been debated over and over again, even in many court rooms. I posted a really good article below.

    http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel_liberty/publicschools/topic.aspx?topic=pledge_of_allegiance2

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  7. MoonliteSonataNovember 17, 2009 at 11:04 AM

    I didn't imply you want to force anyone, but you most certainly said that people don't care if athiests DONT say "under god".. when in fact, they most certainly DO care, and have penalized students on numerous occasions for not saying it during the recital of the pledge. I don't care if it's kept in or not, but at least be honest about the ostracizing and punishment that has happened to those who have chosen not to. It speaks volumes of the villification of non christians for millenia, and the way christains have treated non christians in the past is a bloody history that you should not ever forget, lest it happen again. And yes, it could, if you allow it to. Look at the witch hunts going on in Africa now, in the name of Christ.

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  8. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 11:27 AM

    if the phrase is "under god" then it is certainly about god...kinda goes with having the word god in the phrase.....

    moreover, what place does an oath with the word god in it have in a public school? why are children prompted to recite such an oath when the us is not a christian nation or any other sort of theocratic state?

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  9. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 11:32 AM

    "don't take it away from the majority because the minority doesn't like it..."

    so, given the rapid pace of change in the world, should the us population become majority muslim, would it be ok for students in public schools to participate in daily chants of "Allah Akbar!"?

    if the majority wants it, does that make it right?

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  10. PeggyNovember 17, 2009 at 11:44 AM

    So what if they "care"if you don't say it...there are laws on the books protecting people from reciting the pledge. What more do you want? You are not required to say it. Regardless of what Obama thinks...this IS still a Christian nation. I really don't care what people chant, and who they worship, that is their business.

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  11. PeggyNovember 17, 2009 at 11:56 AM

    http://christianity.about.com/od/independenceday/a/foundingfathers.htm

    Most of our founding fathers were Christians.Of the 56 men who signed the Declaration of Independence, nearly half (24) held seminary or Bible school degrees. The above article is pretty clear on that.

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  12. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 12:04 PM

    Although I am not a historian I do know that a signer of the Declaration, Benjamin Rush stated, "Christianity is the only true and perfect religion and that in proportion as mankind adopt its principles and obeys its precepts they will be wise and happy." Also it appears that colonists educated their children with the Bible being the center of all education. Then schools were started to provide education to those who couldnt be home schooled. So this would mean that it probably was just assumed and probably should have been written in the Pledge but how could they have known how far away from the Lord our country would stray.

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  13. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 12:11 PM

    that's nice, but in mentioning what benjamin rush said, or the practices of some colonists, are you attempting to argue that the us was founded as a christian theocratic state? are you attempting to argue that christianity is the official religion of the united states?

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  14. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 12:27 PM

    Isnt it wonderful Scott that God gave us this land to which we may be able to have freedom to discuss this topic. I will continue this with you soon. I think you two responders are very interesting. I have lived in a variety of places in this country. My children have gone to school in a variety of places and never have we as a family heard of this being a problem except in the media. Again not doing this to argue... I think you both are interesting...
    However, right now I am going to help my 3 year old daughter prepare for her class tomorrow. Practicing the pledge which ironically, she is learning in a public preschool in liberal Minnesota and they say one nation under God with pride.

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  15. PeggyNovember 17, 2009 at 12:31 PM

    I agree dj...I guess the question in my mind is, why do they NOT want "under God" in the pledge, if they aren't forced to say it? I don't buy the separation of church and state argument that some have at all.

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  16. UnknownNovember 17, 2009 at 12:31 PM

    guess you are correct in saying you are not a historian. the us wasn't so much given to us as taken by us.

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  17. MoonliteSonataNovember 17, 2009 at 2:09 PM

    Too funny. Sidestepping the question of WANTING the US to be a theocratic government like Islam is the theocratic government of Iran doesn't work with some of us. Your questioning of why some poeple don't want the phrase is proof that you beleive that our government should be, and you won't be happy until everyone gives lip service to god, or must listen to it under the guise of government and patriotism. You also ignored what I said about people's rights NOT being protected, repeatedly. Why should anyone have to sue, past or present, to protect their children from enforced christianity at all? Take the phrase out, and its a non issue. Why should the tyranny of the majority trump the rights of the individual?

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  18. PeggyNovember 17, 2009 at 2:39 PM

    OK, wait a minute. This issue has been fought in the courts so many times, always with the same outcome. No one should, or even Can force any child to say the pledge in school if they don't want to. The ACLU supported the lawsuit years ago. They lost...

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  19. PeggyNovember 18, 2009 at 4:42 AM

    What about the Christmas tree question....Christmas has been in our culture for ever! President Obama is going to have a "Holiday tree?"...at least that what the rumor is. Isn't that Political correctness?

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  20. JoeNovember 20, 2009 at 8:49 PM

    James Madison was an atheist. Thomas Jefferson re-wrote the New Testament so as to eliminate any mention of Christ's divinity. At the time of the writing of the Constitution most university-educated landholders were educated by some sort of seminary. This does not make the States a Christian country.

    There are protections against having to say certain sections of the Pledge of Allegiance but that does not make it any less indoctrinational nor influential.

    President Obama will probably have a Christmas tree because he is a Christian. That has no bearing on this issue.

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  21. PeggyNovember 21, 2009 at 11:25 AM

    It has been reported that around 76 percent of the population considers themselves Christian. It is about Patriotism, and unity. I don't believe Obama is in a Christian because, any man that could sit in Rev. Wrights church for over 20 years and then deny knowing the guy is not an honest Christian.
    America's has different cultures and religions, and has existed as "one nation under God" going back to the majority of our founding fathers. Today's Christians get thrown into liberal diversity, and are supposed to some how apologize for even being a Christian. When a unifying faith is taken away, people often turn to believe in someone... and, the government becomes the highest authority. From there, well, you know what happens from there.
    If people don't want to say "under God"....don't sat it. I could care less who worships what God, whenever or wherever they please.

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  22. JoeNovember 21, 2009 at 1:08 PM

    You confuse matters.

    A majority of the men who signed the Constitution were also Freemasons. Does that make this country Masonic?

    Those men, who you are so quick to point out were largely Christian, felt no need to put Christ into the document they wrote largely because of their Enlightenment-era beliefs.

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  23. JoeNovember 21, 2009 at 1:16 PM

    If you'd like to brush up:

    http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

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  24. PeggyNovember 21, 2009 at 1:20 PM

    We are not "One Nation Under Christ"...we are "One Nation Under God"...there are many Gods.

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  25. AnonymousNovember 21, 2009 at 1:24 PM

    The Freemasons believed in freedom OF religion implicitly from government persecution. That is the reason they didn't put Christ into the founding documents (practice what you preach). If they would have mentioned Christ that would have made them hypocrites. Adding Freemasons into this confuses the matter, since "Under God" was added in 1954.

    I believe parents can teach their children to recite the Pledge how they see fit. And I don't feel there is any significant reason it should be removed.

    The government just wants to turn individuals into cookie cutter robots who do exactly as they're told and vote the same. It's scary.

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  26. JoeNovember 21, 2009 at 3:47 PM

    http://www.theonion.com/content/news/area_man_passionate_defender_of

    Cheers.

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